Tejashwi Yadav feels Bengal polls confirmed that folks imagine in secularism, says it’s as much as Chirag Paswan to come back clear on his ideology for any alliance, calls Modi govt reshuffle a bid to cowl up failings, and elaborates on why Lalu stays related. The session was moderated by Special Correspondent Dipankar Ghose
DIPANKAR GHOSE: You helmed a really intense marketing campaign throughout the Bihar elections final 12 months. After the polls, you emerged as the only largest social gathering however couldn’t type the federal government. In hindsight, would you might have performed something otherwise?
It was a vital election and for the primary time my father (Lalu Prasad) was not bodily current with us. The whole duty was on my shoulders. We have been competing in opposition to ‘the world’s largest social gathering’ (the BJP). Many smaller alliances have been created to chop into our votes. All the Central ministers landed in Bihar, aside from members of the Bihar authorities, Nitish Kumar… Central businesses such because the CBI, ED, Income Tax division have been additionally unleashed. So our combat was essential.
A 12 months earlier than the elections, we determined to boost the problem of unemployment as a result of Bihar has became a centre of unemployment. The state has a big younger inhabitants, lots of whom migrate out of the state. We even began an unemployment yatra, however then the pandemic struck and we needed to cancel every little thing. Also, it was the primary election being held within the pandemic. We have been clueless about how issues would unfold. We instructed the Election Commission that if the state of affairs is unhealthy, they will delay the polls as properly. So whereas we contested the polls, we didn’t get a lot time to organize.
We have typically seen that the BJP tries to communalise the environment throughout elections; they create divisions. Bihar was one election the place we pressured them to talk on points. We obtained lots of assist in our rallies, and our vote share additionally reveals that. If you increase floor points, folks assist you. The Chief Minister would mock us and say how will we give 10 lakh jobs, after which his personal ally promised 19 lakh jobs.
In phrases of assets, we fell brief in entrance of the BJP. If we had one helicopter, they’d 30. Since the elections have been occurring in just one state then, they’d put their whole would possibly into it. The mandate of the folks was with the Mahagathbandhan, however you may say that the choice of the EC was in favour of the NDA… This additionally reveals that we’re not only a ‘M-Y (Muslim-Yadav) party’, as is usually believed, however that we’re an ‘A-Z party’.
DIPANKAR GHOSE: After the outcomes, you stated you’d go to courtroom. Why did you resolve in opposition to it later?
About 12 of our candidates have gone to the excessive courtroom with proof. For instance, in Munger, when the voting ended, the EC introduced the whole variety of votes solid. But then on the day of the outcomes, extra votes have been counted. How is that attainable? In Hilsa constituency, our candidate Shakti Singh known as me up at 5.30 pm and stated that he had received the seat with 550 votes. At midnight he was instructed he had misplaced by 12 votes. All this proof might be positioned in courtroom.
MANOJ C G: Was giving the Congress 70 seats a mistake?
When the Mahagathbandhan was made, our nationwide president had stated that like-minded events want to come back collectively. That is how Nitish Kumar additionally joined us in 2015… The Congress has been our oldest ally, whether or not it’s on the Centre or state. We are like-minded events. This time we additionally labored on bringing the Left events on board. We wished to construct a broader alliance and provides folks an possibility.
Every social gathering needs to combat on extra seats. When you’re preventing as a part of an alliance, whether or not it’s the Congress or RJD, it’s all one. People voted for our agenda. Our effort was to deal with winnability. If a celebration is robust in an space, it ought to combat from that seat. If you must maintain the alliance intact, you must make some small sacrifices, and being the biggest social gathering in Bihar, we did that and introduced everybody collectively.
DIPANKAR GHOSE: When you say that you’re an ‘A-Z party’, is there a acutely aware try to interrupt away from the politics of caste?
You should see the fact… In the ’90s, there was a necessity for social justice. People wouldn’t even go to polling cubicles. Booths have been looted and votes have been solid. The effort was to deliver the oppressed sections, the back-benchers of society into the mainstream. There was a necessity to make sure equality. That was the fact then. Laluji additionally stated this on our basis day.
Now, we want financial justice. Today there are a lot of platforms for folks to boost their calls for and be heard. Poverty, inflation are huge issues. In Bihar, in 27 districts, the worth of petrol has crossed Rs 100. Bihar grows lots of maize, sugarcane, bananas, however there are not any meals processing items for this produce. There are usually not sufficient factories and industries within the state which might create jobs. No work has been performed for it by the federal government. The situation of farmers is worse than labourers. Nitish Kumar had dissolved the Agricultural Produce Market Committee (APMC) mandis in 2006. This elevated migration. Even now, Bihar has to take care of each floods and droughts and the federal government has not discovered any options. That is why financial justice is essential now and so we’re elevating it.
… I may also say that Nitish Kumar could be very casteist. The social gathering whip, the nationwide president of the social gathering, they’re all from his caste. So folks can run their propaganda… But we’re seeing the fact and elevating points.
SANTOSH SINGH: How do you see Chirag Paswan’s position in Bihar politics sooner or later?
I’ve at all times wished to see extra youth participation in policy-making and decision-making. We have at all times had good relations with Chirag Paswan, and even my father had good relations with the late Ram Vilas Paswan. They labored collectively in UPA-1. Through the media additionally now we have at all times stated that Chirag Paswan must be extra clear in his ideology. He has to resolve (on any attainable alliance sooner or later).
SANTOSH SINGH: Your alliance with the CPI (M-L) helped you attain out to Dalit voters. Are you broadening your vote base additional by bringing in different events into the Grand Alliance?
If an alliance will get broader, you get extra votes. If you examine the 2019 normal election vote share to the state polls final 12 months, there was an enormous distinction. By allying with events which can be in contact with floor realities, now we have benefited, and now we have additionally benefited them. The CPI (M-L) received 12 seats this time, in comparison with three final time. Alliance is not only about votes and coming to energy, now we have to ally with like-minded events, whose ideology matches ours. The RJD is the one social gathering that has by no means compromised on its ideology, on its commitments, regardless of what Laluji needed to face. Many events joined the NDA, BJP at some stage, however not the RJD. We have at all times fought in opposition to communal forces who need to promote the nation…
SANTOSH SINGH: What if Nitish Kumar turns into like-minded tomorrow?
You can not belief him. We gave him one likelihood, and he did what he’s recognized for. During the Union Cabinet enlargement, he once more did a U-turn. His phrases maintain no worth. We don’t have a machine to detect that if he joins us, he is not going to do a U-turn once more.
SANTOSH SINGH: You are criticised for not hitting the streets as typically as your father did…
You see my yatras, I’ve lined 18,000 km by street. Now, for the previous year-and-a-half, now we have been dealing with the pandemic. We requested for permission to go to households of affected folks, however didn’t get it. You will need to have seen footage of Laluji and I sitting with villagers, speaking to farmers… Show me a current image of the CM doing any such factor or speaking to the youth. He will get lathicharge performed on them. The partitions of the CM’s residence are getting larger, his safety is growing. During his yatras, he simply will get off the helicopter, sees the challenge and returns. I meet widespread folks every single day. The CM solely meets bureaucrats for evaluation conferences. And what’s the results of that? Healthcare, schooling, every little thing is in a shambles in Patna. We have been elevating points. This is the primary time that folks in energy wish to discover out what the Opposition chief is doing.
If we had not raised our voice, migrant employees wouldn’t have been allowed to return to Bihar (throughout the first section of the pandemic), trains wouldn’t have run, and lakhs of individuals would have died on the streets. It is due to us that Nitish Kumar has come all the way down to 43 seats. Bihar has a robust Opposition. When I hit the streets to demand the 19 lakh jobs they promised to the youth, I used to be charged below Section 307, try and homicide! I face at the very least 25 such circumstances… As CM, in case you are looking for me, then why are you sitting on that chair, make me sit on it. I’ll do your work.
RAVISH TIWARI: The political situation now could be extremely polarised. As a younger politician, how do you plan to deal with it sooner or later?
This politics of polarisation has elevated quite a bit since 2014. If anybody speaks in opposition to the ruling social gathering, they face warmth from the CBI, ED and Income Tax departments. And those that compromise and be part of the BJP, all their sins are washed. I bear in mind the time my mom was chief minister, Atal Bihar Vajpayee would name her and inform her that I’m making so and so the governor… There have been etiquettes in politics. Then too there have been totally different events with opposing views, however you additionally needed to honour the submit that you just held. Earlier, folks from totally different events might meet, talk about points. But now even in case you are seen with somebody (who opposes the ruling social gathering) chances are you’ll face an inquiry. If you write an excessive amount of in a newspaper, you’ll lose your job. So why is that this worry being created? If you have a look at information channels, one can simply determine the political leanings of the information anchors. This could be very harmful. That is why Laluji had stated in 2014, that we have to resolve on whether or not the nation will keep collectively or disintegrate.
Look on the constitutional establishments… If you have a look at the design of the RSS and the communal forces, even after they exit of energy, the hatred that they’ve created within the society will take a very long time to dissipate. That’s a much bigger concern.
But they’re being slowly uncovered. They harped on achche din, and now have a look at the costs of petrol, diesel, onion… They solely work on creating distractions, and never on working for the nation. Whether it’s LIC, BSNL, Air India, Railways, SAIL, what’s left? You are making black legal guidelines for the farmers, however you don’t have time to fulfill them. You can meet Priyanka Chopra and different celebrities, however you may’t meet farmers. We have by no means seen such a factor… It’s the identical for the CM right here. There is a dictatorial perspective, every little thing is centralised. We have to come back collectively for the nation.
RAVISH TIWARI: Have you tried to determine what works in favour of Prime Minister Narendra Modi?
People want an possibility… The Congress is a pan-India social gathering. The Opposition can not come collectively with out the Congress. The Congress has to turn into the muse of any such Opposition. Also, it’s fairly late now and we should always begin making a method on how we are going to attain out to the folks. There is not any dearth of points, persons are dealing with issues they usually need this authorities to fall. People are admitting that they voted for the mistaken social gathering. So it’s our duty to current a substitute for the nation. Everyone has to come back collectively, maintain apart their egos and variations to save lots of the nation. If you take away the regional events, there are at the very least 200 seats the place the Congress and BJP are in a direct contest. But in areas the place the regional events are robust, they need to be put within the driving seat. The time has come for this… Now, what steps are taken, that continues to be to be seen.
ANANT GOENKA: Based on the Cabinet reshuffle, do you suppose the Prime Minister is giving any indicators to Nitish Kumar in regards to the alliance in Bihar?
It doesn’t matter if he was giving a sign or not, nevertheless it confirmed that Modiji has failed. It was an try and do one other picture makeover and idiot the folks, that one thing will occur! Modiji has been all about distractions. At a time when petrol costs are at an all-time excessive, companies are struggling and the financial system is dealing with a stoop, the reshuffle was simply to point out those who one thing is being performed.
ABHISHEK ANGAD: What have been your interactions like with you father when he was on the Rajendra Institute of Medical Sciences in Ranchi?
We would meet him on Saturdays. He was shifted to RIMS from Birsa Munda jail and his well being report was launched each week. He has been a kidney and coronary heart affected person. As a son, I used to be fairly anxious as a result of RIMS neither has amenities for kidney therapy nor for coronary heart therapy. That is why we raised questions because it was occurring below the (former) BJP authorities (in Jharkhand)… When I met him, I’d replace him about what is occurring exterior, the political developments… We would speak about his well being, household, Bihar…
VANDITA MISHRA: What position will Lalu Prasad play on this new RJD that you’re now steering ahead?
Laluji has had an extended political profession. He ensured social justice. As railway minister, he managed a revenue of Rs 90,000 crore for the sector. In each funds, he decreased fares. He gave Bihar 4 factories, and even now there isn’t a fifth one. He launched the Garib Raths. From Harvard University to INSEAD, Singapore, all honoured him for his efforts to tug the Railways out of debt. He was often called a administration guru. He has performed lots of work. We shouldn’t neglect it. The youth of right now will see how devoted he’s in the direction of his ideology. He does what he says, we should always study from him. He by no means compromised on his views and beliefs for gaining energy. Laluji is a mass chief. The manner he communicates with folks… he’s linked to the poor, villages. Even the agriculture minister right now is not going to know what crops develop within the nation. In truth, I’d say that Laluji ought to have been in Parliament now. It feels empty with out him.
DIPANKAR GHOSE: Has the BJP pressured Opposition events to rethink stand on communal politics? What will your technique be for 2024?
The BJP-RSS has one agenda, they need a Hindu nation. They have a tried and examined method of communalism. But the technique ought to be primarily based on actual points. We have to boost these points. In Bihar polls too they tried to do it, however we caught to points resembling unemployment. We speak about peace, and the place there may be peace there may be prosperity. We want to speak in that path. But there will need to have been some shortcomings in our communication…. The manner the BJP, RSS do their publicity of non secular and different points… We should discover a resolution for it…
Also, it shouldn’t be claimed that some social gathering solely talks of Muslims (referring to Sonia Gandhi’s 2018 remark that the BJP had managed to persuade those who the Congress was a Muslim social gathering). Both Hindus and Muslims could be communal… It can’t be that solely Hindus are communal and Muslims aren’t.
…When L Okay Advaniji’s Rath Yatra was stopped (in Bihar by Lalu Prasad in 1990), the (Ram Mandir) web site was disputed. After the courtroom’s choice, issues grew to become clear. We had stated that we’ll go along with the courtroom order… We want to significantly consider an answer… Even within the media, we don’t have discussions on financial system, GDP, growth. They have debates on Hindu-Muslim, mandir-masjid, Dawood, Pakistan. You should deliver the true points to the forefront. But their publicity equipment is large…. They have a lot cash. Their workplace in Delhi is value hundreds of crores. During demonetisation, they purchased land in all districts of the nation. The resolution is just to boost folks’s points. People have seen that Modiji has performed nothing for the previous seven years, and he has made his ministers scapegoats after he obtained flak for his lack of labor.
DIPANKAR GHOSE: How do you learn the Bengal election outcomes? Also, are you in contact with Opposition leaders resembling Mamata Banerjee and Akhilesh Yadav?
The folks of Bengal have given a great message to the nation. It reveals that folks imagine in secularism. They voted for it, and for Mamata Banerjee’s work. The BJP’s efforts failed there. Regional social gathering leaders resembling Mamata Banerjee, Akhilesh Yadav, Sharad Pawar, we meet from time-to-time. Everyone is worried in regards to the nation. Very quickly there might be a method in place. I’ve at all times stated that we should always all come collectively and be sure that our marketing campaign reaches the folks. We ought to go to each state collectively and inform folks what guarantees the federal government has not fulfilled, what the problems are… If now we have not been capable of persuade folks to date, it means there are some errors, and we’re not being seen as ‘one’. So we have to let go of our egos and variations, who will get what submit, we should neglect that. If the nation survives, we are going to get posts. If they (the BJP) keep for some extra time, there might be no nation…
RAVISH TIWARI: Is the interior disaster inside the Congress impeding the consolidation of the Opposition?
The Congress has to take care of it and are available out stronger. They have to focus on these 200 seats… There is not any level in delaying the issues. Now I don’t know in the event that they (the Centre) use Covid-19 as an excuse to cease us from hitting the bottom… We should make a back-up plan for that too.
LALMANI VERMA: What is your suggestion for the Opposition in UP?
I’ve stated what ought to occur. Thereafter, it’s as much as particular person regional events. I can not drive anybody. I can not tie somebody up. Who agrees, who comes collectively, who doesn’t, is their choice. But there may be one factor. When sooner or later, historical past is learn, folks is not going to forgive us.
DIPANKAR GHOSE: Do you see Nitish authorities finishing its time period?
No one can predict what occurs in politics. No different state has seen 4 governments in 4 years aside from Bihar… Nitishji stated final 12 months that this might be his final election, however nobody trusts him. People of Bihar need this authorities to fall. Let’s see.
