Derek O’Brien: ‘All parties make mistakes… We are quietly confident. Didi’s credibility will see us by means of’

O’Brien says EC should reply for firing that killed 4, clarifies get together’s place on the insider-outsider debate, asks why Abhishek Banerjee has not been arrested if costs in opposition to him true, and says events now want males like Prashant Kishor. The session was moderated by Special Correspondent Dipankar Ghose
DIPANKAR GHOSE: Six of eight phases of polling are carried out in West Bengal. Where do you assume this election stands proper now?
We have been centered on our marketing campaign. We are saying that within the final 10 years, the Mamata Banerjee authorities has delivered on many parameters — well being, training, street, infrastructure, electrical energy, employment, IT, girls’s security. We are additionally saying that within the final 10 years, we haven’t carried out all of it. On the opposite facet, you might have the BJP. You decide them on the guarantees made and the guarantees they’ve saved. This is the essential proposition. The BJP desires to make feedback, bask in bluster and large discuss and play thoughts video games. We haven’t been into that. The backside line is if you’re combating the world’s most harmful political drive…you must acknowledge that they’ve the cash. And I dare say that they discovered a brand new ally. We all the time knew it was a hidden ally, however within the final two weeks the extraordinarily compromised Election Commission (EC) has come out brazenly as their ally.
DIPANKAR GHOSE: While you attacked the Prime Minister for holding rallies even because the Covid-19 caseload was rising, the Trinamool additionally wasn’t very immediate in shutting down its rallies and campaigns.
We have been interesting to the umpire, the Election Commission, for a very long time. Please take a look at the press convention by Mamata Banerjee after the election schedule was introduced. We stated that you’re evaluating the scenario now to 2016 (for holding polling in eight phases). In 2016, there have been a whole lot of deaths resulting from insurgents, now that quantity is zero. And the second cause we gave for (not holding the polls over eight phases) was the scenario of the pandemic. So we now have been very, very constant.
Going again to the Election Commission, by the way in which, we now have written hundreds of letters to them and bodily delivered 108 letters. What have we been saying? Change the foundations, change the foundations, change the foundations! But the Election Commission didn’t act. The solely time they acted was two hours after Mr Modi’s announcement… There’s no fig leaf of pretence anymore. I’ve a whole lot of issues to say concerning the EC which I’ll say after May 2… What they are saying inside these closed-door conferences, it’s pathetic. And by the way in which, how come this election is being performed with two of the three ECs. Everybody knew the third particular person was going to retire? Maybe Amit Shah is the third EC. He may as nicely come out and do it brazenly… It’s a really dangerous scenario. As far because the BJP goes, it’s their umpire, their bat, their ball, their pitch… But we nonetheless need to play the match, that’s the reason we are saying ‘match on (Khela Hobe)’, what can we do?
SANTANU CHOWDHURY: The Trinamool all the time refers back to the BJP because the vacationer gang and outsiders in Bengal. Can you elaborate? Also, why is caste enjoying such a giant position within the polls this time?
Let me reply your second query (on caste) first. Politics in Bengal has by no means seen the sort of divide that the BJP is attempting to play up desperately in typical Modi-Shah mode. They can preserve enjoying it up however we nonetheless consider that individuals is not going to purchase it.
Now on to the primary half, what can we imply by outsider? Because in any other case this complete debate will be misconstrued. What can we imply by outsider, insider? Whether your identify is Agarwal, Gupta, D’Souza, Sharma, Roy Choudhry, Jha, you aren’t an outsider. People who come right here, stay right here, work right here, have a ration card right here… Outsiders are those that just like the BJP have come into Bengal two months in the past to suck the state for votes. There is a transparent distinction between outsider-insider in Bengal. Shouldn’t I name Amit Shah an outsider when he says Rabindranath Tagore was born in Shantiniketan? Shouldn’t I name the BJP an outsider once they go and garland the improper statue of Birsa Munda? It doesn’t work… That is the excellence between outsiders and folks from Bengal. So they (the BJP) will try to confuse the argument, however we’re very clear.

We are in a really optimistic marketing campaign… We are saying discuss to us about farmers. You promised Mr Prime Minister that you’ll double farmers’ earnings by 2022. At the present price, that’s not going to occur earlier than 2028. In 2011, Mamata Banerjee stated she’s going to double farmers’ earnings. She didn’t double farmers’ earnings in 10 years, it has truly tripled… Talk to us about Kanyashree (an initiative of the state authorities to enhance life and standing of women), which has received the United Nations award… Our funds for the scheme is Rs 9,400 crore. What is the advantage of that? It has introduced down early marriage figures, improved toddler mortality price… Talk to us about street development, MSMEs… That is Bengal. Talk to us concerning the 95 lakh new households electrified since 2011… Talk to us about these, as a substitute of digressing and bringing Pakistan into the narrative or beginning another divisive narrative. That’s not going to work… They can’t ship any of their MPs to debate us as a result of 5 of their MPs have been demoted to battle MLA elections in West Bengal…
MANOJ C G: Can the BJP’s rise within the state solely be attributed to the truth that they’ve extra funds? The BJP had round 10% of the votes and three seats within the final Assembly elections, and within the 2019 Lok Sabha polls they went on to win 18 seats, accounting for practically 40% vote share.
Let me offer you some information. The CPM vote share dropped from 30% to 7% within the final election, and the Congress’s vote share dropped from 10% to five%. So there may be an opposition area there. The Trinamool Congress didn’t drop its vote share. The Trinamool’s vote share went up by 2%… Today, there may be sufficient proof on the bottom that the Left entrance, the CPI(M) is telling individuals to vote for the BJP. The Opposition area has gone to the BJP.
MANOJ C G: But there are different points as nicely, together with anti-incumbency in opposition to your authorities and your MLAs on the native degree, corruption, lower cash, and perceived resentment in opposition to appeasement insurance policies. These have additionally performed a job within the rise of the BJP within the state.
There must be anti-incumbency. There is Covid, we additionally had Cyclone Amphan final yr, which was the primary setback in Bengal. We need to acknowledge that. Of course there will probably be anti-incumbency; after 10 years in authorities you’ll have to change your MLAs.
I all the time say who’s speaking about corruption. If the Trinamool has small-time retail corruption down the road, the BJP has company, wholesale corruption. They are probably the most corrupt political get together on the earth. And this isn’t rhetorical. Look on the CAG experiences from the final one-two years. Look at electoral bonds… For each Rs 100 given on electoral bonds, the BJP will get Rs 60. Look at PM-CARES. They do it in a wholesale approach. They are very trendy about it. Look on the approach they management surrogate media and digital platforms. Look on the approach it’s managed, and you might be speaking of corruption.
DIPANKAR GHOSE: The alleged violence by Trinamool staff has additionally added to the anti-incumbency…
If every little thing was so improper concerning the Trinamool Congress, then how come our get together’s ministers had been getting used within the BJP within the washer format?… Suvendu Adhikari, Mukul Roy have instantly all turn out to be angels… You have run them by means of the washer… You take all of them, you shut the circumstances down and also you throw corruption costs at us… You are making all these accusations in opposition to Abhishek Banerjee… All businesses are yours — the CBI, ED. Put forth the proof and arrest him… But you’ll be able to’t do this. You are solely doing this on your 9 pm tv channel exhibits… After 4 days, it would all go away.
You discuss dynasty. What is dynasty? Who is your Nandigram candidate? His father is an MP, his brother is an MP, his elder brother is a councillor and his sister-in-law can be a councillor. All these guys are dynasts. Piyush Goyal isn’t a dynast? Anurag Thakur isn’t a dynast? I’ve made a listing of 37, they’re all dynasts… What is Jay Shah’s contribution to cricket? Nobody talks about it…
ATRI MITRA: In villages affected by Cyclone Amphan, there have been accusations of corruption in opposition to many panchayat leaders. How are you assuring these sections?
That is the place we wanted to do some self-assessment. We did it and acquired some suggestions. That is why six-eight months earlier than the polls we began the door-to-door ‘Duare Sarkar’ outreach programme, saying that we aren’t good. That is the course correction. You need to have the humility to course appropriate. You can’t have the hubris of a Modi who introduced demonetisation and didn’t have the humility to course appropriate… But that doesn’t imply that each single particular person down the road is corrupt.
RITIKA CHOPRA: Poll strategist Prashant Kishor has stated that he doesn’t agree with the assault on EVMs. What is your response to that? He additionally stated that Narendra Modi is a well-liked chief on the bottom. Do you agree together with his evaluation?
I’m a believer of the truth that to battle elections at present, political events want Pashant Kishor and Indian Political Action Committee (I-PAC). The MPs and political leaders who assume I-PAC is the competitor, they’re old skool, they’re blind. They don’t know the way elections work. I-PAC is a crucial useful resource and Prashant is a good thoughts to have in a staff. Number two, Modi is a well-liked chief. Do you assume Hitler was not a preferred chief? He (Kishor) stated nothing controversial. His view on EVMs is his view, my get together’s view is a special view. That’s completely tremendous.
We don’t need to agree on every little thing… We are very suspicious that the Election Commission is bought out. I made a mistake by calling the EC ‘extremely compromised’. They are a very sold-out physique. It could be very, very unhappy.

SHUBHAJIT ROY: Essentially there’s a sense that the Trinamool has gone all out on minority appeasement. There appears to be some latent anger amongst Bengali Hindus in West Bengal concerning the matter…
Bengali Hindus are offended with the Trinamool you say. Minorities account for 27% of the votes in Bengal. How come we acquired 45% of the votes within the Lok Sabha elections? This is all a cock-and-bull mindset that Bengali Hindus vote for the BJP and anyone else votes for the Trinamool… Mamata Banerjee recites the Chandi Path within the privateness of a room, however when she recites it publicly you say she is attempting to appease… Religion is personal, festivals are for everybody. It isn’t my quote however it is extremely Calcutta. It’s very Bengal. There is a Jewish Bakery known as Nahoum in Kolkata. The Christmas truffles on the store are baked by Muslim bakers, and you’ll see Bengali Hindus queuing as much as purchase the cake. That’s the Bengal we all know. This isn’t Amit Shah’s Bengal, this isn’t Modi’s Bengal. Derek O’Brien is a minuscule minority of a minority. I don’t symbolize an Anglo-Indian nominated seat. I’m an elected member of the Rajya Sabha. It can solely occur in Bengal with Mamata Banerjee.
SANTANU CHOWDHURY: Does the Trinamool have a plan in place to handle the Covid-19 disaster if it returns to energy?
The very first thing we are going to do is implement free vaccination from May 2. When the March 2020 lockdown announcement occurred, no one was taken into confidence — neither Parliament nor the state. It’s solely later that Modi and Shah realised that the states did all of the soiled work when it got here to implementation. Earlier, they had been fast to take the credit score… Overconfidence, conceitedness, hubris… Now it’s again to what the states can do. (In case of the TMC) a minimum of you already know who will implement the insurance policies. Who will implement it for the BJP? Who is their CM candidate?… The query of the BJP successful Bengal doesn’t come up. They have overestimated this election by an unlimited proportion.
SWEETY MISHRA: Youngsters in Bengal really feel that the state hasn’t provided them a lot.
Perception constructing is an space the place we are able to do higher. For instance, IT exports in Bengal went up by 175 per cent within the final 10 years. We should get this throughout. There are 1,500 corporations now in Bengal. In 2011, there have been 490 corporations. There had been 90,000 IT professionals in 2011. Now, there are nearly 2,20,000 IT professionals…
DIPANKAR GHOSE: Has spiritual polarisation elevated on the bottom in Bengal?
There could also be three causes for that. The first cause is that there’s an Opposition vacuum created after the collapse of the Left and the non-existence of the Congress. That must be occupied.
Number two, the BJP can’t compete on governance and growth, so that they wish to write a brand new story for Bengal, which is a divisive, polarised one. There is little doubt about it. And the third cause is that they run a very detrimental marketing campaign. You wish to recruit, you’ll recruit anyone, there isn’t a natural progress there…
There are three BJPs in Bengal. One is the ‘BJP Original’, which is Dilip Ghosh’s BJP… Then there’s a ‘BJP B’, which has those that left the Trinamool Congress 5 years in the past. And the third one is ‘BJP Tatkal’, made from those that joined the get together within the final three-four months for numerous causes… After the outcomes on May 2, when the Trinamool wins, these three BJPs can’t perform collectively… I’m saying this as a scholar of politics.
MANOJ CG: During the 2018 panchayat elections, when the Trinamool candidates had been uncontested in 30% of the seats, it was the Opposition that had attacked the State Election Commission for his or her candidates not with the ability to file nominations…
We have been a political get together since 1998… You can’t level out a single political get together which hasn’t made errors. When you introspect… after all, the 2018 (panchayat polls) didn’t go nicely for us. We may have carried out that otherwise….
All events make errors, even larger errors. But belief Didi, she is the captain of the ship. That is why we’re quietly assured. When there are skilled surveys (performed) by the TMC, the Chief Minister’s rankings are proper up there. With the Chief Minister’s ranking hovering round 50 per cent, you’ll be able to definitely take a look at these numbers and say the CM’s personal credibility is sweet. And that’s what will see us by means of ultimately.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: If the Trinamool loses the election on May 2, will you settle for the decision or blame EVMs and the EC for the outcomes?
Why ought to I enable a detrimental thought to return to my thoughts? Why ought to I enable a hypothetical query? Why ought to I enable a query when my information and suggestions from the bottom says we’re comfortably forward of the BJP in comparison with 2019. We are successful this election, Mamata Banerjee would be the chief minister for the third time in a row. The two turncoat ministers from the TMC will probably be defeated. And the Union Minister may also lose within the polls.
…During the firing in Sitalkuchi in Cooch Behar, 4 individuals died. No matter what the result’s on May 2, the EC, Amit Shah or whoever it’s, must be held accountable. Where is the video footage? Where are the two,000 individuals who got here round and did all these barbaric acts (attacked the safety forces)? Where is the video footage of snatching of weapons? No matter what occurs on May 2, why did you shoot to kill? Why didn’t you shoot waist downwards? These are the massive questions which the EC has to reply. One of the human tragedies of this election is that the EC was capturing to kill. We will take this up from the afternoon of May 2.
The EC difficulty is not going to cease as a result of it isn’t concerning the EC. It is about an establishment… Irrespective of the outcome, I’ll truly disclose official conversations between the EC and the Trinamool. I’m instructed that these conversations had been recorded. If I can entry these conversations, I have to expose it.